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	<title>Comments on: Bye bye Mac, hello again PC!</title>
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	<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/</link>
	<description>David Tenser&#039;s brand new microblog</description>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50557</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50557</guid>
		<description>Sorry to hear about your troubles, David. I wish you the best of luck in your switch, and part of me wishes I would dare to do that as well... :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to hear about your troubles, David. I wish you the best of luck in your switch, and part of me wishes I would dare to do that as well&#8230; <img src='/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: David Tenser</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50556</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tenser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50556</guid>
		<description>Jeff, got it. And yes, I did see the &quot;overstating&quot; part; no worries. But I think most people&#039;s spontaneous and cheerful reactions here are based on the fact that I&#039;m switching to Linux, not that I&#039;m leaving something else (Apple). 

I do think that at Mozilla there are too many people using macs. Even though it&#039;s a good way to virtualize all three OSes, many if not most developers end up using Mac OS X as their main OS, making people focus more on that OS than it rightfully deserves. At least 80% of our user base is on Windows, and I daresay that a significant portion of our community is on Linux, so the attention to Mac OS X is at least partially undeserved. All in my humble opinion, of course.

To me, switching back to Linux feels natural and exciting, and doing that on a PC is a lot smoother than on a Mac.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, got it. And yes, I did see the &#8220;overstating&#8221; part; no worries. But I think most people&#8217;s spontaneous and cheerful reactions here are based on the fact that I&#8217;m switching to Linux, not that I&#8217;m leaving something else (Apple). </p>
<p>I do think that at Mozilla there are too many people using macs. Even though it&#8217;s a good way to virtualize all three OSes, many if not most developers end up using Mac OS X as their main OS, making people focus more on that OS than it rightfully deserves. At least 80% of our user base is on Windows, and I daresay that a significant portion of our community is on Linux, so the attention to Mac OS X is at least partially undeserved. All in my humble opinion, of course.</p>
<p>To me, switching back to Linux feels natural and exciting, and doing that on a PC is a lot smoother than on a Mac.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Walden</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50546</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Walden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50546</guid>
		<description>I did say I was overstating, didn&#039;t I?  Perhaps even &quot;overstating&quot; wasn&#039;t a strong enough modifier...

In any case, I recognize that your gripe was about Apple, and I fully agree.  However, my comment was directed against comments, not your post -- and there the responses contained not even the faintest hint of disapproval of Apple or any acceptance, however, slight, of the resultant need to have Apple hardware to support the OS choices of Mozilla users.  Even a little bit of, &quot;I see where you&#039;re coming from, too bad you have to do what you&#039;re doing&quot;, would have been sufficient, but almost never do I see any such empathy ever expressed.  *That&#039;s* what frustrates me -- not that Apple is evil (they are in this instance, not in others, as of course no one is wholly good or evil), but that no one really mentions it or acknowledges that this forces us to make tradeoffs, rather than simply taking a Manichean view of the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did say I was overstating, didn&#8217;t I?  Perhaps even &#8220;overstating&#8221; wasn&#8217;t a strong enough modifier&#8230;</p>
<p>In any case, I recognize that your gripe was about Apple, and I fully agree.  However, my comment was directed against comments, not your post &#8212; and there the responses contained not even the faintest hint of disapproval of Apple or any acceptance, however, slight, of the resultant need to have Apple hardware to support the OS choices of Mozilla users.  Even a little bit of, &#8220;I see where you&#8217;re coming from, too bad you have to do what you&#8217;re doing&#8221;, would have been sufficient, but almost never do I see any such empathy ever expressed.  *That&#8217;s* what frustrates me &#8212; not that Apple is evil (they are in this instance, not in others, as of course no one is wholly good or evil), but that no one really mentions it or acknowledges that this forces us to make tradeoffs, rather than simply taking a Manichean view of the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kaply</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50539</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kaply</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50539</guid>
		<description>Take it to an Apple store.

My Mac died and was out of warranty and come to find out there was a recall and it was fixed for free.

Might as well check.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take it to an Apple store.</p>
<p>My Mac died and was out of warranty and come to find out there was a recall and it was fixed for free.</p>
<p>Might as well check.</p>
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		<title>By: Ragavan</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50537</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragavan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50537</guid>
		<description>David,
Can&#039;t help you with your broken mac, but have you tried using Weave? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/10868
It syncs your browser meta-data across all your firefox instances. We don&#039;t do address books yet, but it&#039;s something we&#039;re definitely thinking about.
Good luck with your new PC!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />
Can&#8217;t help you with your broken mac, but have you tried using Weave? <a href="https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/10868" rel="nofollow">https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/10868</a><br />
It syncs your browser meta-data across all your firefox instances. We don&#8217;t do address books yet, but it&#8217;s something we&#8217;re definitely thinking about.<br />
Good luck with your new PC!</p>
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		<title>By: ThomasS (Lendo)</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50534</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasS (Lendo)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50534</guid>
		<description>Hi David, sorry for your loss, but welcome back to the Linux user community! :) I&#039;m using Ubuntu (with Gnome) for little more than 1,5 years and I love it - I would never go back to Windows. (I never had a Mac.)

Sean Hogan: Your memories are really old and outdated. It&#039;s going better every half year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David, sorry for your loss, but welcome back to the Linux user community! <img src='/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;m using Ubuntu (with Gnome) for little more than 1,5 years and I love it &#8211; I would never go back to Windows. (I never had a Mac.)</p>
<p>Sean Hogan: Your memories are really old and outdated. It&#8217;s going better every half year.</p>
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		<title>By: David Tenser</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50532</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tenser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50532</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I don&#039;t think the comments are knee-jerk -- what you&#039;re describing as &quot;the way things are at the moment&quot; is exactly what I don&#039;t like about Apple: they force you to run their system as it&#039;s the only way to conveniently test on all three systems. Why would Apple get to decide that for me? If I want to run Linux and virtualize Mac OS X rather than the other way around, that should be possible.

I&#039;d rather be without Mac OS X altogether, but then again I&#039;m not a developer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, I don&#8217;t think the comments are knee-jerk &#8212; what you&#8217;re describing as &#8220;the way things are at the moment&#8221; is exactly what I don&#8217;t like about Apple: they force you to run their system as it&#8217;s the only way to conveniently test on all three systems. Why would Apple get to decide that for me? If I want to run Linux and virtualize Mac OS X rather than the other way around, that should be possible.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather be without Mac OS X altogether, but then again I&#8217;m not a developer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Walden</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50528</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Walden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50528</guid>
		<description>Did you not get a three-year warranty on it?  Two years old puts it at about the same age as mine, which recently had what appeared to be graphics card problems (artifacts not exactly like yours, freezes, eventually artifacts at boot followed by a kernel panic).  There was a recent issue with them such that Apple would repair even laptops out of warranty, might be worth trying that.  (Also on that, are we the only two people who actually try to use hardware for the full warranty period?  I&#039;m planning on getting at least through the 10.6 release on my current one, and I&#039;ll probably go for the full three years unless the Mozilla codebase decides it doesn&#039;t want to work on 10.4 any more.)

I&#039;m a little annoyed that the responses so far are mostly anti-Mac knee-jerk responses (overstating it, but still).  If you want to hack on software that runs on Linux, Windows, and Mac, Mac systems are simply all that&#039;s out there to support that (usually not multi-boot but rather through virtual machines, actually, to the other commenters here).  This is not a personal preference; this is a fact.  Further, so long as licensing makes it harder to virtualize OS X (need the server edition, can&#039;t virtualize except on Apple hardware), and assuming you can&#039;t have it as a guest OS on non-OS X even if on Apple hardware (I would love to know if this is possible but assume no), you&#039;re forced into running OS X if you want to be able to have access to all operating systems without a tedious reboot.  I wish this were otherwise, but it&#039;s the way things are at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you not get a three-year warranty on it?  Two years old puts it at about the same age as mine, which recently had what appeared to be graphics card problems (artifacts not exactly like yours, freezes, eventually artifacts at boot followed by a kernel panic).  There was a recent issue with them such that Apple would repair even laptops out of warranty, might be worth trying that.  (Also on that, are we the only two people who actually try to use hardware for the full warranty period?  I&#8217;m planning on getting at least through the 10.6 release on my current one, and I&#8217;ll probably go for the full three years unless the Mozilla codebase decides it doesn&#8217;t want to work on 10.4 any more.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a little annoyed that the responses so far are mostly anti-Mac knee-jerk responses (overstating it, but still).  If you want to hack on software that runs on Linux, Windows, and Mac, Mac systems are simply all that&#8217;s out there to support that (usually not multi-boot but rather through virtual machines, actually, to the other commenters here).  This is not a personal preference; this is a fact.  Further, so long as licensing makes it harder to virtualize OS X (need the server edition, can&#8217;t virtualize except on Apple hardware), and assuming you can&#8217;t have it as a guest OS on non-OS X even if on Apple hardware (I would love to know if this is possible but assume no), you&#8217;re forced into running OS X if you want to be able to have access to all operating systems without a tedious reboot.  I wish this were otherwise, but it&#8217;s the way things are at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Percy Cabello</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50527</link>
		<dc:creator>Percy Cabello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50527</guid>
		<description>As a happy T400 user for the last 8 months, and T42, T30 and T23 before that with some Dell&#039;s and HPs in between I can&#039;t recommend it more. My only complaint till now is that I have to reinstall from the recovery CD/DVDs combo whic his pretty slow (around 1 hour) compared to 20-30 mins If I was able to install from clean Vista DVDs. But you probably won&#039;t care if going Linux.

I would also suggest to go with a 9-cell battery despite the extra space it uses.

I as well used a MacBook for a few months last year but gave up in the end as I found learning all the new stuff (and I love learning) wouldn&#039;t get me anywhere farther than I was already on Windows. I finally sent it back to the eBay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a happy T400 user for the last 8 months, and T42, T30 and T23 before that with some Dell&#8217;s and HPs in between I can&#8217;t recommend it more. My only complaint till now is that I have to reinstall from the recovery CD/DVDs combo whic his pretty slow (around 1 hour) compared to 20-30 mins If I was able to install from clean Vista DVDs. But you probably won&#8217;t care if going Linux.</p>
<p>I would also suggest to go with a 9-cell battery despite the extra space it uses.</p>
<p>I as well used a MacBook for a few months last year but gave up in the end as I found learning all the new stuff (and I love learning) wouldn&#8217;t get me anywhere farther than I was already on Windows. I finally sent it back to the eBay.</p>
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		<title>By: David Tenser</title>
		<link>http://djst.org/blog/2009/07/13/bye-bye-mac-hello-again-pc/comment-page-1/#comment-50524</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tenser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://djst.org/blog/?p=475#comment-50524</guid>
		<description>Jon: The T400s is exactly the computer I&#039;m hoping to get. It looks like exactly what I want, except perhaps a somewhat poor graphics card. 

Ricardo: I might try KDE out but I&#039;m so used to Gnome I&#039;ll probably use it instead.

Sean: I find Ubuntu&#039;s upgrade system to be working fairly smoothly, although I agree with you about driver issues in the past. This particular PC seems to struggle with graphics even though it&#039;s an Intel chipset which Linux supports natively. It&#039;s just sluggish. I hope the T400s won&#039;t have the same problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon: The T400s is exactly the computer I&#8217;m hoping to get. It looks like exactly what I want, except perhaps a somewhat poor graphics card. </p>
<p>Ricardo: I might try KDE out but I&#8217;m so used to Gnome I&#8217;ll probably use it instead.</p>
<p>Sean: I find Ubuntu&#8217;s upgrade system to be working fairly smoothly, although I agree with you about driver issues in the past. This particular PC seems to struggle with graphics even though it&#8217;s an Intel chipset which Linux supports natively. It&#8217;s just sluggish. I hope the T400s won&#8217;t have the same problems.</p>
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